Most of the people defending this just simply don’t realize how sexist they’re thinking is. They see non-techie computers as such a large group, but I see just as many men non-techies out there as women, only difference is men non-techies (from my experience, at least) simply pretend to be knowledgeable when they don’t have a clue. Yes men and women are different in some ways. Our body chemistry does affect our physical attributes and gives one gender certain advantages over the other (at least a jumpstart, not talking about potential). But whats that got to do with computers? Nothing!

Yes I am a woman. I am a computer programmer, a linux user, a geek. I can compile my own kernel and make changes to large and popular open source programs. I prefer a basic text editor rather than a GUI or some sort of program that writes the code for me. I love having control over my operating system. I’m not the only one out there!

Would it be ok for Dell to come out with a website dedicated to the stereotypical black population? Treating them as though they have no idea how to use a computer and focus on the “Bling” factor of the computer and come up with some sort of offensive item that a black person can do with their laptop?

People assume a nontechie girl will avoid sites with intimating terms about the computer. Why not just make the main site as easy to read for a nontechie as you can and have a separate section for techie people that has much faster and shorter descriptions of the computers? Why not have a section to help teach you what each item means, even if its a highlight caption for each techie word?

Besides I wish we could just stop with this whole dumbing down of people when it comes to technology. News flash. People do like knowing these things! They’re not into computers enough to want to take classes or to research at times, but if you just give them the information in a way they can read it, they will probably be glad to learn something new! Not all but you’ll find most people do. I dont know too much about cars, but if someone who does decides to give me a little advice or teach me something you’d bet I’d be glad to learn! No I wouldn’t want to learn how to assemble the car from top to bottom, but I would like to learn how to do basic repairs and tips on how to take care of my car! Non-techie people used to use DOS for crying out loud! Yeah they wasn’t too happy with it but they were able to learn how to use it, imagine that!

By the way, given that the first computer programmer was a woman, the people to program the first digital computer were all women, and that the compiler was invented by a woman, how did anyone ever get the idea that women just aren’t interested in technology? Eventually, men started programming and then after a while there were equal numbers of men and women. And then the women started bailing out less than 30 years ago.

Someone up near the top of the thread said that when non-tech-savvy people are looking to get a computer, they just get someone tech-savvy to help. That was always my role in the family. Know what would let non-tech-savvy folks shop independently? On the build page, explain the differences between CPUs. Explain that a Celeron has less “cache” which means that switching tasks is faster (at least, I think the smaller L2 cache means a smaller context switch penalty) but that applications may run slightly slower than non-Centrino with the same number of GHz. More cores mean it can do more things at the same speed, but that the applications won’t individually run any faster (face it, little is properly multithreaded these days). Explain that more RAM means it can do more at once and faster (like install updates, download email, and play music while you type a paper or play a game). Explain that hard disk means how much stuff you can hold with realistic comparisons like 1 GB = about 15 CDs ripped to MP3 or 1 DVD = about 4 and a half GB along with a note that the operating system will take up about 15GB (they’re using Vista right?) on its own. Don’t put “CD-RW / DVD / DVD-RW” as options. Put “CD-RW (CD player that can burn and reburn) / DVD (DVD player) / DVD-RW (DVD player that can burn and reburn)”.

Shame on you! As a man who has a great appreciation for design I’m offended by the notion that my gender somehow prevents me from appreciating aethetics. May I respectfully request that you practice what you preach… or do we need to make an exception for women?

I hear what you are saying and generally agree, but be careful not to argue in the absurd – being offended by “choice” seem a stretch to me. The same folks that think your gender belongs in the kitchen also stereotype you as irrational… Don’t let your passion prove them right.

-Matt

Maybe the real problem is that lots of women are only willing to do as much, or as little, as society, media, advertising firms…the men in their lives….expect them to do….and no more.

Which, of course, makes it harder for the rest of us.

Statistically speaking of course.

“i” honestly dont see the della campaign as positioning women as homemakers…they portray women as wanting to exercise, cook, travel, organize their life, eat healthier, and participate in “cloud” computing. In this campaign, i see women gathering together to check things out on their computers, a woman walking with her netbook while on the phone and a woman laying on the grass with her netbook….what stereotype of women are they really portraying…do you see any cartoons with women slaving away in the kitchen for their husbands like there was in the 1950s?

maybe, JUST maybe, they are trying to target the woman of the 21st century with a life of her own and not in the context of an inferior partner to male. this site is geared towards women NOT women and how they relate to men.

I sort of see where you are coming from but I think this campaign empowers women to think about technology in a way they might not have thought of before as opposed to looking at the campaign and thinking “wow, im offended, i know technology and why does dell think all i like to do is cook”

I’ll just address this one part: You’re missing the point you yourself were trying to make in your previous post. You asked: “Marketers use sex as a way to appeal to men all the time. *does* *anyone* *have* *a* *problem* *with* *that*?”

And I said, yes. Yes some people do have a problem with the use of sex to appeal to men in advertising. You may only think that sex in advertising is ok because you don’t know any better. (See, eg, http://safarimari.vox.com/library/post/my-letter-to-axe-about-their-raunchy-commercials.html , http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/living/2004050655_axeads03.html )

The issue is not “whether sexist advertising works.” I’m sure the Axe campaign worked wonders for Unilever–I know that I’ve tried it myself in college. The issue is whether for some people, it is offensive, or wrong. As a society, we aren’t supposed to always make decisions because they work, but with regard to the ethics and morality behind them.

Now, there is a healthy debate as to what the proper boundaries of advertising are: what constitutes sexism, how much sexism is “okay”, etc. with legitimate arguments on both sides. However, the debate starts with acknowledging and accepting that some people are offended, and that they have a legitimate right to feel that way.

I’ll just leave with one last note: if it has been historically the case that women have been positioned as homemakers, and that this societal belief has led to reduced decisional capital in the family, inequality in pay, and a glass ceiling for women (among other things), why *wouldn’t* the continued stereotypical portrayal of women be *at least* somewhat problematic?

By marketing to a group of people (in this case women) who may not know how netbooks can be used. All because some tech-savvy women arent impressed with the campaign, doesnt mean its inappropriate.

“Yes, a huge portion of the population, with members that are *both* male and female.”

Correct, but Dell decided to capture this particular market…maybe they are planning something for men, who knows.

“Yes, and the category of “SOME” people does not have to be defined by gender lines. It can be defined by role or occupation: student, professional, retiree, homemaker, chef, fitness enthusiast, engineer.”

Of course it CAN be, no one is disputing that…Dell just decided NOT to in this case. On their normal dell.com page, they describe laptops that should appeal to kids, artists, professionals…so they seemingly do both – target a student, a child an employee (without gender-specific lines)

“Plain English does not mean “belittling” or “resorting to cliched stereotypes.” Plus, as stated repeatedly, many men, kids, and the older generation can benefit from a plain English description as well… why limit to just women?”

I guess I fail to see or agree that della belittles women. Have you ever used A computer (any type) to look up recipes online? to keep track of fitness goals? Ever considered a tech toy with how well it fits in your purse? As a guy, ive certainly evaluated tech toys like cellphones with how well they fit in my pocket and if someone marketed a cell phone to me based on how well i can slip it into my front pocket, id be sold, not insulted (lets pretend this was 3 years ago when not everyone was as tiny as they make them today).
Everyone can benefit from a plain English description – AMEN! 100% agree. so since they are starting with less than tech-savvy women and not everyone at the same time, they are completely in the wrong??? give them some credit for doing what other companies dont, albeit starting with a small segment of the population. You assume that dell thinks youre stupid by the way they are marketing their product. They are just NOT marketing this product to YOU because they dont need to.
Also, if DELLI (get it, like deli meat) was started and marketed to men showing how easy it is to check sports scores, i would disregard the message and not be insulted. do i check sports scores online? nope, i dont care too much for sports. would i be insulted that Delli was catering to men who liked sports and assumed a cliched stereotype that ALL men like sports??? absolutely not, because i understand that many men do like sports and would enjoy knowing how easily they can keep up with sports on their netbook (i have a friend who bought a netbook to sit in front of the tv and watch other sports while the tv is on)…am i forgetting that women like sports as well – nope…they just arent being targeted.

“I don’t follow the iPhone closely, and challenge you to demonstrate where such a gender-specific approach has been taken. It seems very likely to me that whatever you’re referring to appeals to “lifestyles” and not “genders” but I’m interested in seeing.”

youre right, i may have been mistaken. i could have sworn i saw a commercial about a specific iphone app that was gender specific but i looked and seemed to appeal to a lifestyle. ill keep searching and let you know if i find something.

“This has to be a joke.”

Nope. Axe sells deodorant by showing how attractive you are to the female population with two sprays of axe body spray and even hint at your chances of getting laid. they are using sex to sell. its not about feelings its about marketing sales strategy. and in some instances, it works.